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E27: Age is More Than a Number-Age Discrimination in the Workplace

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In this episode, we discuss age discrimination, how to detect it and how to stop it. Ageism in the workplace is a hot topic and its something highly overlooked, but if employers are not careful, they could expose themselves to costly litigation. Have a listen as Thom and Kathleen tackle this important topic.

Episode Transcript

Thom Jennings (00:33):
Hello everyone and welcome to Cover Your Assets, the Labor and Employment Law Podcast. I'm your host, Thom Jennings. And of course, as mentioned in our intro, which we still haven't changed, but I'm gonna at some point, our resident expert, my sister, one of my favorite people in the world. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna throw that out there. I appreciate you sis, Kathleen Jennings. I forgot to say, I forgot to say you're an attorney as well, so let's throw that in there. That's, that's like the, the, the last status I think of.

Kathleen Jennings (01:04):
Oh, that was very sweet of you to say, bro. And you are one of my favorite people as well, and certainly my favorite podcaster.

Thom Jennings (01:12):
And we will say that today we have a very special guest in the New York studio as we are broadcasting from well recording, not actually broadcasting from the lovely state of New York, the only state that ends in the letter K Atlanta one of many states that begins and ends with an a. Well, that's not a state, it's a city. So Georgia, we got a guest here today, Chasm the puppy, and hopefully he's quiet, but if he's not, you know, whatever. People love dogs.

Kathleen Jennings (01:38):
Most people, some people don't,

Thom Jennings (01:40):
Some people don't. All right. Yes.

Kathleen Jennings (01:42):
So, but that's not our topic today. Is it, Thom?

Thom Jennings (01:45):
Well, it, it's, it's kind of related to our topic because Chasm is an old dog and there is an adage you can't teach old dogs new tricks. And when it comes to employment law, some employers don't want to teach old dogs new tricks, and they try to bring in a younger workforce and that could cause you a little bit of a legal snafu, so to speak. And today we'll be talking about a particular case that my sister had sent me via email, having to do with some language when an employer was looking for a specific type of employee that, well, it, it, it wound up resulting in a lawsuit because that type of employee that they were looking for was they were looking for young people and not the old dogs. So why don't we begin with age discrimination? At what point is it really considered age discrimination under the law?

Kathleen Jennings (02:43):
The, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act protects employees over the age of 40 from discrimination in the workplace. So the younger folks, if they complain about age discrimination, they're not actually protected on the basis of their age. They may be protected on other bases, but if they're under the age of 40, they will not have a viable cause of action for age discrimination.

Thom Jennings (03:13):
That, that's interesting. Cause I know we've talked about racial bias and racial bias, obviously it, it, it doesn't pertain to age cuz you could be a different race and, and a different age and whatnot. So most people perceive that racial discrimination is only something that pertains to a minority, but someone that is Caucasian could be discriminated against because they're Caucasian as well. But that's simply not the case with age discrimination if what you're telling me is correct,

Kathleen Jennings (03:43):
We don't have reverse age discrimination. That is correct.

Thom Jennings (03:48):
So, so in the case, the, the, the case that maybe you can give us a little bit of background on the case that you, you sent me, but basically what I remember from it is the employer was, was looking to build a workforce. And I don't think this is necessarily unusual because I, you know, personally, because I, we always bring up something in a personal experience when I was, when I entered teaching, I was 41 years old and there was a group of us that had graduated college together that were second career people and that that's a thing. And we were in our forties and whatnot, and we had a harder time getting a job than some of the younger people because perceived real, whatever how you, however you wanna look at it. We, we kind of got the impression and there were people that told us that there were superintendents at school districts that preferred to have younger staff members that they could mold, you know, people that weren't necessarily going to have opinions or, you know, going back to that in as much as it was kind of a, a little bit of a flip comment.

Thom Jennings (04:45):
I mean, there's some, some basis of reality to it. The old dog, you know, not teaching the old dog new tricks. I mean, the young, the young employee is the guy, you guy or gal you could bring in and say, Hey, I'm gonna make them into the employee that I want them to be. Whereas the perception with an older employee might be they're kind of set in their ways or they're slower or they're physically able to not do things, or maybe they have more doctor's appointments. So those are all very real things.

Kathleen Jennings (05:12):
Wow. Well, and, and as full disclosure, I'm, I'm gonna go ahead and tell our listeners that both Thom and I are over the age of 40. So we are sensitive to this topic certainly, but the case that I sent Thom, that we both looked at was actually, it was an article about a case that the E E O C had brought against a company where the E E O C, the Equal Employ, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which is the federal agency that enforces discrimination laws. They filed suit against a company claiming that the company violated the age Discrimination in Employment Act when the executives of the company pledged to add more. And this is a quote, early career close quote professionals to the company. And so the E E O C is alleging that early career professionals is basically code for, we want young people, we wanna add young professionals to the company.

Kathleen Jennings (06:18):
And so this is just a lawsuit. We don't know what's going to happen with it, but it's certainly a cautionary tale mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to employers to be aware of the messaging in your recruitment publications, whether online, in person the words that you use to describe the kind of worker that you're looking for. And then also beyond that how you talk to potential applicants about the job and be aware of certain words that could be code for older person. You know, what we see is that in some places, maybe if you have a requirement for computer literacy, you better make sure that's a requirement for your job because there may be some older people who are not computer literate, are you trying to exclude those people from your workplace? So any kind of require job requirement like that, and we've talked about this before mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, make sure it's an actual job requirement act, make sure it's an actual function of the job.

Thom Jennings (07:33):
And, and even though this lawsuit has not resulted in a victory for the, the, the litigant, the plaintiff, I guess is the word I'm looking for, you're the attorney, not me, but let's, let's face it, what what you really need to do is you need to prevent situations where a lawsuit can gain any kind of ground. So even if, if this case does not result in a massive settlement or anything along those lines, it still has already resulted in legal costs and maybe to a degree, some negative publicity. So that, again, the theme of our podcast is cover your assets, trying to be proactive instead of reactive in these situations. So yeah, I mean, early, early career, that was the, that was the terminology. Early

Kathleen Jennings (08:18):
Career, early career. And then this article also referenced another lawsuit, and this is another cautionary tale about emails. We had a full co podcast on emails and how emails can get you in trouble. This is an example of how emails among executives got the executives and the company in trouble because the emails between among executives of this company referred to older workers as Dino babies who should be made an extinct species. Wow.

Thom Jennings (09:00):

Kathleen Jennings (09:02):
Yes. Yes. I don't quite get the babies part since we're talking about older folks. I get the dino part. So it's a bit of a mixed metaphor, but, but that's another example of what we've been talking about in, in a lot of our podcasts, which is you've gotta be careful about what your managers and supervisors who are considered to be agents of the company put in emails and text messages social media posts, any of those things can be used against the company.

Thom Jennings (09:43):
And we've discussed it's very easy to record conversations in the workplace as well. So if you're

Kathleen Jennings (09:48):
Absolutely, Yeah.

Thom Jennings (09:50):
It, it, it becomes a cultural issue where you Yeah. If you're using these terminologies and, and, and things like that, and maybe if it, it, again, maybe it's meant to be good spirited or in fun, you know, whatever, if a if a term relates to an individual's age, religion, sex, any of those things, don't use it. <Laugh>, just don't, don't use

Kathleen Jennings (10:13):
It. Yeah. Or, or you'll have, you know, in the workplace you'll have, maybe you have two Thoms in the workplace, so maybe you'll have old Thom and young Thom. Well, calling old Thom, old Thom is, is basically an admission that we know Thom is old. And so Thom may claim if something bad happens to him, if he gets terminated, you terminated me because I'm old. I mean, you know, you let people call me old Thom, and I guess, you know, you just want a young Thom in your workplace.

Thom Jennings (10:50):
Yeah. You know, I get called Santa Claus a lot because I mean, is that a form of discrimination? I mean, Santa Claus is, is an old person, so

Kathleen Jennings (11:00):
I, I think that's due to your beard and the fact that you actually want to be the Bill's Santa Claus. I'll make a plug for that right here. Yeah. So you, you want to be Bill Santa Claus. So I'm, I'm gonna say that that's not necessarily discriminatory because you seem to be inviting it

Thom Jennings (11:21):
And if it, but if it was the case, I mean, let's, let's flip that and let's try to, to turn this into something that could cause some issues. So yes, I'm in, I'm older, I'm 56 years old, I have a white beard. I mean, I look like Santa Claus. And I literally, before we did this recording, I was in a local establishment and picking up some stuff and some guy walking down the aisle says, Oh, look at Santa Claus. And I get that fairly off and I, I get it at work all the time. If it was something that, that I found offensive and it was related to my age, and I had said to a coworker or a supervisor, whatever, you know, please stop. That could be a situation again where it could result in a lawsuit. And and I mean, in as much as that sounds like a stretch, it, it does go back to the, you know, like d babies.

Thom Jennings (12:07):
Like, Oh, I gotta get rid of these D babies. And maybe that's the kind of language that's in the workplace. You know, you, you have it, it, you know, you have workplaces in many cases are made up of, of so many different nuances. And if you have an older portion of the workforce and a younger portion, I mean, you may write, I mean, right there, I mean, there could be some tension between those two groups just because they come from different generations, and that's fairly natural, but you really gotta be careful, especially the younger workers.

Kathleen Jennings (12:39):
Well, and you know, you have the, the whole phrase, Okay, Boomer Yes. Which is, is meant as, I guess the young folk may think that some sort of insult toward the people of a certain age. And so if young people are saying those things in the workplace openly, and the boomers find it to be offensive or insulting, and they tell them to stop and the workers don't, you may have to do something about that. That's, that's not the kind of generational conflict you need to have in your workplace. And so, you know, boomers are boomers and they need to work with the millennials and the Gen Xers and the Gen Y. And what are, what are the newest ones? I, I can't keep up. Yeah,

Thom Jennings (13:31):
I can't keep up either. And this is a little bit off topic, but not too, too far. I mean, could the term Karen be misconstrued then? Could that be something that's considered maybe a, I don't know, having to, I mean, I know it's just related to somebody that's a habitual complainer, but could that be a, a term that's used the workplace that could be looked at as, as harassing or anything along those lines?

Kathleen Jennings (13:57):
Well, another full disclosure, Thom and I have a sister with the name Karen, so we have to tread carefully on this topic as well. But, you know, I think the, the term Karen is considered insulting to a white woman of a certain temperament, shall we say the, let me speak to the manager, white woman. And so you know, there's some aspects of gender as well as race that go along with it.

Thom Jennings (14:31):
Yeah. And, and so, so again, HR managers, business owners, everybody, they really need to make sure that this type of stuff, they have to kind of caution in the workplace as much as possible. And, and I, I mean, I would imagine this is, is not gonna be as much of an issue from employee to employee, But then again, if one employee goes to the HR manager and says, Hey, somebody's constantly calling me a Karen or Santa Claus or Old Man or whatever then it becomes an issue that the company really has to address. But I certainly wanna make sure that your, your management, your mid-level management, people like that aren't using any kind of terms in any way, whether they think it's joking or not. I mean, you know, old man gens, I mean, that kind of, that kind of thing certainly is gonna come up. And, and you may think that, that it's not gonna be a big deal, but again, you fire the employee and they turn back and they go, Oh, you know, they've been calling me old man Jennings for the last three years. So this is clearly an age discrimination thing. Oh, we just look at my hand. All right. Do you remember where you were?

Kathleen Jennings (15:33):
Old people?

Thom Jennings (15:34):
Okay, go ahead.

Kathleen Jennings (15:35):
Okay. So what you also have to be aware of is perhaps you have the older worker in the workplace who's been there forever, and maybe somebody decides that this person is getting close to retirement age, whatever that may be, because it's different for everybody. But they've decided that this old person needs to go, maybe the older worker isn't working as fast as some of the younger workers. Maybe the older worker is missing a lot of days because of medical issues. But in that situation, you have to be very careful not to terminate that worker simply because they're older. If there are specific performance issues, then as we've talked about on our other podcasts, those specific performance issues need to be addressed and give the employee an opportunity to perform better. It's, you don't wanna have a situation of, you know, quiet firing where you're basically trying to drive the older employee into retirement be well, and in addition to being careful about trying to drive older employees into retirement, which is not a good idea, also think about perhaps transfers or promotions. You can't exclude employees that are older from opportunities for transfers or promotions just because you think maybe, well, they're gonna retire in a couple years anyway. Or I don't think they're gonna move because, you know, they're set in their ways. You can't have that attitude. And if you don't consider a qualified older employee for opportunities like promotions are transfers, then they could claim that you are discriminating against them on the basis of age.

Thom Jennings (17:39):
And there was a, there was a case, I believe we discussed earlier today, that that was indeed the case that an older employee was asking for transfer and they were not not granted it, and they filed a lawsuit and that lawsuit is going through the courts right now.

Kathleen Jennings (17:54):

Thom Jennings (17:55):
And I, and, and another thing i I that employers should be cautioned about is, is in a case where, like you said, you have these forced retirements where you're pushing out the older employees, if you begin replacing them with all younger employees, that could be evidence of discrimination. So for example, if you have 10 employees that are over the age of 40 and you replace them all with employees under the age of 25, I would think that in a lawsuit that could put you in a very difficult position as far as trying to defend the fact that you're not discriminating on the basis of age. And, you know, there's, I mean, well, well we, we have to, we have to acknowledge that there is some advantages of disadvantages to hiring somebody of any age. You know, you hire somebody that's very young, they could be somebody that if we're looking at stereotypes, and again, this doesn't apply to everybody, somebody that's younger, you know, they may be engaging in nightlife and maybe a little more tired sometimes and, and doing some things and, and be less dependable in that respect. You have people with

Kathleen Jennings (19:02):
Younger, were you like that as a younger employee? Thom <laugh>?

Thom Jennings (19:05):
Well, I worked in the restaurant business, so I think that was encouraged because people were coming out to engage in nightlife at my employer. But and then you get people with young families, so they have to take time off all the time because their kids are getting sick. And then you get older workers that may have more medical appointments. So there's really, I mean, really what I'm trying to say is that regardless of age, you may be trying to avoid a situation that is age related. Every age has its strong points and its weak points. So ultimately you should just be hiring the best person for the job and looking beyond whatever their age is. I'm not just saying this as an old guy, <laugh>, I mean, really this is

Kathleen Jennings (19:47):
Well, you, you are a little bit,

Thom Jennings (19:49):
A little bit, yes. I mean, I'm coming from the perspective of an older person who, you know, I've perceived age discrimination in many situations, and even my son who's a, an executive recruiter has said, yes, it is a real thing. We, we, we deal with it on a regular basis in terms of people discriminating based on age, but hey, you know, older workers they, they can do a great job for you. They really can.

Kathleen Jennings (20:13):
Well, and, and yeah, I think there's, there's pluses and minuses to everything. There's, there's a perception, I think, among some employers that older workers are more reliable, more likely to come to work on time, more likely to come to work every day instead of maybe some of the young folk who are enjoying the nightlife or staying up too late, playing video games or all of those other things that we're gonna say to stereotype younger workers. But, and at the end of the day, you need to look at qualifications, experience, and whether a person is a good fit for the job and good fit doesn't mean that they have to be the same age as everybody else in the office. If you have an office full of young folks and you have a highly qualified older applicant it's not a good reason to exclude that person just because you think, well, they're not gonna be a good fit because of their age.

Thom Jennings (21:14):
Yeah. And I mean the, the, the cold hard reality is that an older worker is not better than a younger worker. And a younger worker is not better than an older worker based solely on their age <laugh>. It really just does come down to the individual. Some people just happen to be great for an organization and some people aren't. So that should be your ultimate goal if you're gonna create, and, and, and, you know, having a mix of ages, I think is a benefit for an organization as well, because, you know, I, I look at my experience in sales. So we had, we dealt with very different individuals in, in sales. There were some people that liked working with somebody that could talk about the, the music that they grew up with. So there was an advantage to that. And there were some people that preferred to work with younger people. So when you have a diverse workforce, it gives you a, a broader perspective. I think it's, I think ultimately it's better for, for everybody. And that's not just based on age, that's based on everything. You know, gender, sexual orientation, you know, that kind of stuff. And more importantly, from just a practical standpoint, you're gonna avoid lawsuits because if you,

Kathleen Jennings (22:22):
You're gonna cover your assets if you have the kind of workplace utopia that Thom is describing.

Thom Jennings (22:29):
And, and you know, this is, this is something, and I I, I'll be interested to hear your opinion on this because I think this is where people can get themselves into trouble unwittingly, because in many cases, employers find themselves in these situations not because of malice. You know, they're not going out and saying, Oh, you know, I wanna discriminate against older workers, or I wanna discriminate against this race, or whatever. It kind of happens. And I, and it was something that, that my son brought up that, that made me think. And I was like, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. When you have these employee referral programs, and let's say you have a, a, a male or a female employee, we'll just call it, we'll say it's a male. You have a male employee who's 25 years old, graduated from the local college, and he works out great for you. And you go, Hey man, you got any friends? And then they start bringing all their friends in. Now you've got this workforce of, of same age, maybe same gendered, maybe same race, just based on the fact that that's how you've been employed. Because instead of going outside and recruiting, you're just bringing in a friend group and now somebody else tries to get in the organization that, that doesn't fit that particular mold. And guess what, Find yourself in a little bit, little bit of legal trouble.

Kathleen Jennings (23:39):
Little bit, little bit. Yeah. I think that's a great point, Thom. And that's one of the reasons why relying only on word of mouth for recruiting employees is not a good idea because it does tend to lead to a very homogeneous workforce. And that kind of workforce can lead to potential discrimination suits for those who are left out because they don't look like the rest of the people in the workforce.

Thom Jennings (24:11):
Or you get somebody that comes in, let's say I'm 56 years old, everybody that works there is 22. I mean, that's on many levels. That could be a very uncomfortable place for me to be because I, I can't relate to the music. They listen to the things that they do. And again, that may be where the jokes come. It's like, Oh, well there's old, there's old Santa Thom again coming in, You know, cuz he's the only old guy in the workforce. So those are all things that again, it, it really becomes an awareness issue, but it starts at how you're recruiting employees and, and at some point it just makes sense for a business owner or an HR person to just maybe take a step back and, and, and look at the demographic of your workforce and, and then look at your hiring practices and make sure that those things are all in line.

Kathleen Jennings (24:59):
Absolutely. And and one other point, one other issue that I think comes up in the course of talking about older workers, there may be a perception that an older worker is more expensive for the company, either because that worker is going to expect more money because they've had a longer job history, or perhaps because they're older, they have more medical expenses. And those are not valid considerations if, if you're using them solely on the basis of someone's age. So this is another example of the kind of conversation that shouldn't be happening among executives, certainly should not be discussed in emails or text messages, basically saying, We can't hire Santa Thom because he's going to be too expensive. Or we can hire this 20 year old for a lot less money. And so that's why we're gonna do it.

Thom Jennings (25:58):
Yeah, I I mean the money thing, I I, I agree with you that that's, that's a very real thing. And because, you know, it, it, it, it goes back to expenses too. So if you're 22, 23 years old and you're living at home, you're negotiating salary, you could probably throw a number at an employee that, that they might dive at and go, Oh my gosh, you know, this is a ton of money. Whereas somebody that has a mortgage payment is gonna go, No, this, this isn't gonna cut it.

Kathleen Jennings (26:24):
Right. Right. And you know what, you get what you pay for sometimes. So you have to be very careful with that.

Thom Jennings (26:30):
And you got, and you have to be very careful with salaries. Now we've, we've had that discussion on, I mean, so many of our podcasts, we we have these, these crossover themes, but yeah, that pay thing can wind up being very discriminatory. It. So, and, and with that being said, could there be a case where if you know the, the older workers, well, I guess since you don't, the younger workers aren't being protected, but if you're paying the older workers significantly more than the younger workers, I mean, that may not get you into Yeah. Legal trouble. It could maybe cause problems in the sense that the younger workers will begin to be more resentful of the older workers. And then you just have a toxic workplace. Didn't we do an episode on a toxic workplace? Yes, I

Kathleen Jennings (27:11):
Think we, we have done a toxic workplace. I feel like we should do it again though. Cause there's so many of them out there. Yes.

Thom Jennings (27:16):
So toxic. Yes.

Kathleen Jennings (27:18):
Toxic love

Thom Jennings (27:19):
Canal. Yes. Love canal was the most toxic workplace ever. But yeah, that nobody's gonna get that joke, but well look it up.

Kathleen Jennings (27:28):
Maybe people of a certain age,

Thom Jennings (27:30):
People of a certain age, Yes, absolutely.

Kathleen Jennings (27:32):
People of a certain age will get that joke and people of another age may not. And and you may have that in the workplace. Certainly any workplace where my brother works, there are going to be a share of what we're gonna call dad jokes.

Thom Jennings (27:49):
Yes. Dad jokes.

Kathleen Jennings (27:51):
And so maybe some of the younger workers aren't going to get those or appreciate

Thom Jennings (27:56):

Kathleen Jennings (27:56):
Yeah. Yeah. So does that mean we don't wanna have dad jokes in the workplace? Thom, what are your thoughts?

Thom Jennings (28:05):
I, I mean, I love dad jokes.

Kathleen Jennings (28:07):
That's what I thought.

Thom Jennings (28:08):
So of course, of course we should have them.

Kathleen Jennings (28:10):

Thom Jennings (28:11):
Because you know, when, you know when it is a dad joke, Right. It's when it's a parent.

Speaker 4 (28:20):

Thom Jennings (28:23):
All right, Well, with that horrible dad joke.

Kathleen Jennings (28:27):
Horrible. Yes.

Thom Jennings (28:28):
By the way, Santa, as far as discrimination, I, I would never complain. I work basically one month out of the year. There's a heavy load right around the 24th of December, and then I, I get like 11 months off. It's nice. Although every year it seems like I gotta work longer and longer.

Kathleen Jennings (28:45):
Yeah. And you get cookies and treats milk. Yeah, yeah. No, I get it. I get it.

Thom Jennings (28:51):
Santa's work, Santa's working conditions are Fanta, but I've, you know, as Santa, I've always had to be very careful in terms of hiring practices when looking at elves. You know, I've had to diversify my workforce beyond just the elves.

Kathleen Jennings (29:03):
Absolutely. And your reindeer.

Thom Jennings (29:05):
And my reindeer, right? Yes. We've incorporated, we've incorporated buffalo now that, that, and and other animals that pull and rabbits and dogs that pull the sled. It's a very diverse sled force. All right, we gotta end this thing before it just, it's you know, this is, this is a function of our age

Kathleen Jennings (29:23):
Before Christmas. Yeah.

Thom Jennings (29:24):
We're starting to fall asleep cuz we're too old to continue to That's right. The podcast this long

Kathleen Jennings (29:30):
Well it's almost five o'clock, so it's almost time for dinner.

Thom Jennings (29:33):
True. Takeaways.

Kathleen Jennings (29:36):
Takeaways, as we've said before, and we'll say it again, probably consider people based upon their qualifications, their experience, and not because of their age or any other protected characteristic.

Thom Jennings (29:51):
And be very careful when you are wording your recruitment materials. Make sure that there's no language in there that could be misperceived as excluding anyone in a particular age group. The terminology that was used in the first case we discussed was early career. And you, I get, you know, some people it could be switching careers, but, you know, early career. I mean, it, it really is going to, I mean, we know what it means. Let's not, let's not defend that statement. Well, you never know. Somebody could be early career in their forties. They could, but they usually aren't.

Kathleen Jennings (30:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Early career is code for young.

Thom Jennings (30:30):
Yes. and recruitment practices. Remember, try to diversify your workforce. Don't get caught up in the, in the referral grind. You know, make sure that you're looking for employees in, in different ways and at different places.

Kathleen Jennings (30:44):
Absolutely. And don't let employees call each other names like old or Santa or anything like that in the workplace.

Thom Jennings (30:54):
And definitely if you are in middle management or above, no, don't do it. No jokes about age. And for goodness sake, have somebody proofread your emails <laugh> before you send them out. I mean, anything. Don't or just be smart about 'em. You know, just,

Kathleen Jennings (31:11):
Just crazy. Yeah. Don't, don't talk about making old employees extinct in your emails. That that should be fairly obvious, but I guess it's not because it happened.

Thom Jennings (31:22):
Yeah, it happened. All right. And of course, contact information in case anybody would like to get in touch with you to learn more.

Kathleen Jennings (31:30):
Well, you can reach out to me at my

Thom Jennings (31:37):
That'd be really funny if you gave a fax number, cuz that would really make it look like you're really old.

Kathleen Jennings (31:43):
Or you could just mail a letter to me if you'd like <laugh>.

Thom Jennings (31:49):
I know, you know, it's funny because even as an old person when someone says, Can you fax it to me? I'm like, Can I What? If you gimme your, if you gimme your pager number, I'll fax that to you. So,

Kathleen Jennings (31:59):
Yeah. Yeah. No, let me check my Blackberry and I'll get back with you on that.

Thom Jennings (32:06):
See if that number's in my Rolodex. All right. With all those little older person references, we hope you've enjoyed this podcast regardless of your age. This is really just meant for everyone and anyone in hr as always, we will accept any kind of constructive criticism nice words, reviews, you know, whatever you'd like to do. And if you have a topic that you'd like us to consider, please email it to us. Contact information will be in the show notes. And I will close with Thank you everyone. We've, we've, we've had we've been trending upwards, continually in terms of listenership, so we're glad to see that growing and we'll just keep growing and growing and growing until we're, we're just, until our egos won't allow us to grow anymore. We'll just, we'll, self-destruct.

Kathleen Jennings (32:57):
No, let's not grow that much,

Thom Jennings (32:59):
Thom. Yeah. Let's not grow that much. But would you like to, would you like to, to send us off with our, with our tagline? Thanks for listening and always, you know, all that

Kathleen Jennings (33:08):
Everybody, thank you so much for listening and don't forget to cover your assets.

Podcast Disclaimer

The Cover Your Assets-The Labor and Employment Law Podcast is produced by Thom Jennings of the Caronia Media Group. For more details, you can contact him at

The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. Use of and access to this podcast or any of the e-mail links contained within the site do not create an attorney-client relationship between Kathleen J. Jennings. The opinions expressed at or through this site are the opinions of the individual hosts and guests.

Kathleen J. Jennings
Kathleen J. Jennings
Former Principal

Kathleen J. Jennings is a former principal in the Atlanta office of Wimberly, Lawson, Steckel, Schneider, & Stine, P.C. She defends employers in employment matters, such as sexual harassment, discrimination, Wage and Hour, OSHA, restrictive covenants, and other employment litigation and provides training and counseling to employers in employment matters.

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